Curse

The Meth · May 18, 2008, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Agreed on SY! needing a nerf of some sort. You have to wonder what Anet was smoking when they thought up a +100 armor skill. The only reason its still unnerfed is because it takes a year of grinding to get it half maxed.

IMO, SY should be changed to this:
4 adren cost, 8 recharge
Shout. For 2...4 seconds, all other party members gain 100 armor.

Basically a much more powerful Watch yourself, but at best able to be kept up about 1/3rd to 1/4th of the time.

Sabway doesn't need a nerf IMO, its at best decently powered.

Arkantos · May 18, 2008, 07:27 PM // 19:27

There's really no way to nerf sabway without screwing up necros in PvE. You either have to kill the curse necro, kill the MM, or kill soul reaping. Seeing as those 3 are pretty much what make necros viable in PvE, it's not going to happen.

Star Gazer · May 18, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

If the PvE only skills get toned down and regular skills get buffed to being useful but not overpowered, PvE will be somewhat balanced (lol, balanced PvE).

because balanced PvE is what we need. killing monsters need to be balanced. because speed an the ability to win everything should not be in a fun game. because after all, guld wars is neither fun, nor a game. its more like real life to some people.

amirite?

Dr Strangelove · May 18, 2008, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

because balanced PvE is what we need. killing monsters need to be balanced. because speed an the ability to win everything should not be in a fun game. because after all, guld wars is neither fun, nor a game. its more like real life to some people.

amirite?

Yeah! Why don't we just skip the middleman and have all the monsters explode in a gooey fireworks show of loot? PvE isn't about playing the game, it's about picking up loot and having fun, amirite?

Vinraith · May 18, 2008, 08:36 PM // 20:36

One of the fundamental problems with online games is that for some people, fun means a challenging game that requires thought and skill, and for others it means an easy game with tons of eye candy and loot. I'll never really understand that latter group, personally. Easy isn't fun, it's boring.

Carinae · May 18, 2008, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

There's really no way to nerf sabway without screwing up necros in PvE. You either have to kill the curse necro, kill the MM, or kill soul reaping. Seeing as those 3 are pretty much what make necros viable in PvE, it's not going to happen.

Remove SR triggers from minions.

SY and Sabway are less of a problem than UB. SY teams are running actual builds and playing their characters normally. Sabway takes up 3 party slots...

SY and Sabway need to be toned down, but they aren't bad. UB needs the nerfstick in a bad way.

Arkantos · May 18, 2008, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

because balanced PvE is what we need. killing monsters need to be balanced. because speed an the ability to win everything should not be in a fun game. because after all, guld wars is neither fun, nor a game. its more like real life to some people.

amirite?

I don't see how you find steamrolling enemies by mindlessly hitting buttons fun. Personally, I find it very boring, and I'm sure many agree with me.

Games aren't supposed to be super easy. Games need challenge in them to keep people playing. Not a whole lot of people will continue playing a game if it's super easy, which Guild Wars PvE is right now. Now I'm not saying PvE should be a super challenging thing, because it shouldn't. But elite areas and hard mode need to be somewhat challenging. Ursan, along with other PvE only skills, throw the challenge out the window.

Now sure, you could say if you want challenge don't play ursanway, which is totally true. But if you didn't know, ursan is affecting how others who want a challenge play, which is part of the problem.

People managed to play the game before ursan and PvE skills, people should be able to play it if they get nerfed.

Quote:

Remove SR triggers from minions.

As long as your team is killing enemies, this nerf will not change anything.

Star Gazer · May 19, 2008, 12:08 AM // 00:08

when has this game NOT been super easy? even before pre-ursan, it was easy enough. ub just makes it faster.

Frank Dudenstein · May 19, 2008, 12:09 AM // 00:09

How did this become a discussion about nerfs? Let's be very clear about this, ANET IS NOT GOING TO NERF A SINGLE SKILL IN PVE.

Put it this way ... they are going to an awful lot of trouble and spending alot of man-hours (read: money) to put in this 'separation of skill balances'. And it's not because they want to - it is counter to their original model. It is only a result of the endless crying over nerfs.

Now do you really think they are going to go to all that trouble to pacify the QQers ... only to nerf something else and start it all again??? Surely you don't think they are that stupid...

On a side note: why do you think this is happening 3 years after release? We are beta testing GW2 basically (which is a good thing).

Crom The Pale · May 19, 2008, 01:08 AM // 01:08

I believe one of the reasons for this is that Anet finally gets that PvE requires a totaly differnet kind of balance than PvP.

In PvE we require that every skill line for a profession be viable to play. So that An elementalist can go fire/water/earth/air without losing his effective ness to the rest of the party. The same holds to of all the classes.

In PvP balance means that a warriors offence is offset by a monks healing, or a elementalists spells by a rangers interupts. In PvE we need balance within each profession.

Now the possibility of seeing smiting monks or blood necros exists or warriors using tactics again....

If Anet simply does a few skill reversions and then does absolutely nothing with PvE it will be just as bad as if they did nothing at all to begin with.

Marverick · May 19, 2008, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Sabway is fine in PvE; there's nothing really wrong with it. It isn't invulnerable and it has quite a few weaknesses.

SY! needs to get toned down to +40-60ish armor. Still enough to make it worthwhile but not so much that damage becomes a joke. The 4 second recharge idea is terrible and just kills the skill.
Maybe make it affect the user then and drop the adrenaline to 6-7.

Snow Bunny · May 19, 2008, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

when has this game NOT been super easy? even before pre-ursan, it was easy enough. ub just makes it faster.

by the way, please do not delete any more of my posts. you delete shit all the time, and have no reason. stop admin abusing, kthx.

I think he's deleting your posts because you're posting shit.

But maybe it's just me.

I've fallen asleep at the keyboard while SYing as a Paragon. The easier the game is, the less incentive there is to play it.

Sure, I can play GTA4, put 1000 cheat codes in and drive a tank around, invincible. But that gets old after roughly 5 minutes. Just like Ursan.

You know what the best part of the whole argument is? If you make PvE too easy (UPS ALREADY THAR) you make it boring. If it's boring (UPS ALREADY THAR) then you don't want to play it, and you begin to PvP. When you PvP you realize how broken many skills are, and realize that they should be nerfed and anyone who thinks that Splinter Weapon in its completely un-nerfed state is good for the game is a moron.

oops.

FlamingMetroid · May 19, 2008, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

I think he's deleting your posts because you're posting shit.

But maybe it's just me.

I've fallen asleep at the keyboard while SYing as a Paragon. The easier the game is, the less incentive there is to play it.

Sure, I can play GTA4, put 1000 cheat codes in and drive a tank around, invincible. But that gets old after roughly 5 minutes. Just like Ursan.

You know what the best part of the whole argument is? If you make PvE too easy (UPS ALREADY THAR) you make it boring. If it's boring (UPS ALREADY THAR) then you don't want to play it, and you begin to PvP. When you PvP you realize how broken many skills are, and realize that they should be nerfed and anyone who thinks that Splinter Weapon in its completely un-nerfed state is good for the game is a moron.

oops.

QFT
PvE doesn't need to become easier, PvEers shouldn't be complaining about skills when they don't know why they're broken.

Diddy bow · May 19, 2008, 01:52 AM // 01:52

PvP we will be throwing pebbles at each other.

PvE may as well just have 8 diffrent kill buttons.

Thats how it will be i bet ^^

shoyon456 · May 19, 2008, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Can we get Avatar of Melandru down to like, 15 or 20 energy? Or AT LEAST bring the +health up to like 200 again

Yeah, its pve, who the hell cares?

Sora267 · May 19, 2008, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

There's really no way to nerf sabway without screwing up necros in PvE. You either have to kill the curse necro, kill the MM, or kill soul reaping. Seeing as those 3 are pretty much what make necros viable in PvE, it's not going to happen.

Update - ?? ???? 2008

Miscellaneous

-Reduced Hero functionality of the Curses and Death Magic skill lines.
-Removed primary attributes from Heroes.

Boom, bye bye Sabway. Gogogogo Blood/SR Necro heroes!

Esan · May 19, 2008, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Nerfing anything in PvE now is just unfair to those who did not jump on the Ursan/Imbagon/whatever bandwagon early enough to have finished everything already. Those who are just getting on the title grinding treadmill would be completely demoralised and would quit the game. Buffing, on the other hand, would only demoralise those who have already climbed to the top of the GWAMM flagpole, and these players are as much a boon as a cancer to the game. (I have yet to meet the nice GWAMM.)

Which is why I doubt Anet is going to nerf anything, even though I am elitist enough to think that GW would be better if at least half the PvE playerbase did indeed quit. At least the lag would be less.

Taki · May 19, 2008, 02:17 AM // 02:17

what's a GWAMM

Arkantos · May 19, 2008, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star Gazer

when has this game NOT been super easy? even before pre-ursan, it was easy enough. ub just makes it faster.

by the way, please do not delete any more of my posts. you delete shit all the time, and have no reason. stop admin abusing, kthx.

The game was somewhat challenging before PvE skills and consumables. You know, back when players complained that elite areas were too hard. Once ursan and consumables came out, very few people have said the elite areas were hard, because all they have to do to beat it is press c and spam 123.

By the way, stop trolling, and I won't have to delete your posts. I've deleted one of your posts, and it was a troll post. Of course if you have a problem with me keeping these forums clean, feel free to PM an admin.

Quote:

Update - ?? ???? 2008

Miscellaneous

-Reduced Hero functionality of the Curses and Death Magic skill lines.
-Removed primary attributes from Heroes.

Boom, bye bye Sabway. Gogogogo Blood/SR Necro heroes!

I spotted a flaw.

garethporlest18 · May 19, 2008, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

I think he's deleting your posts because you're posting shit.

But maybe it's just me.

I've fallen asleep at the keyboard while SYing as a Paragon. The easier the game is, the less incentive there is to play it.

Sure, I can play GTA4, put 1000 cheat codes in and drive a tank around, invincible. But that gets old after roughly 5 minutes. Just like Ursan.

You know what the best part of the whole argument is? If you make PvE too easy (UPS ALREADY THAR) you make it boring. If it's boring (UPS ALREADY THAR) then you don't want to play it, and you begin to PvP. When you PvP you realize how broken many skills are, and realize that they should be nerfed and anyone who thinks that Splinter Weapon in its completely un-nerfed state is good for the game is a moron.

oops.

Well that's cause you're being noob and using a tank.. tanks are extremely boring in a game like GTA. What you have to do is drive a regular car around and crash into people and make them fly and watch them die and blow up other cars and shoot people in the leg and punch them and run, stuff like that makes it fun for at least an hour.

Like in Oblivion, getting a mod that made people fly when they got killed. Typing in TGM then going around towns with a 1hit kill sword or using your fists and watching them fly, that supplied 3 hours of awesome fun!!

But yeah they get boring pretty fast and while Ursan is fun for the first hour as long as you're getting good loots, it gets boring pretty fast. Same with 55ing and other "invci" type farming builds.

If Anet is gonna do anything they need to make PvE harder, I'm just not sure how they'll go about doing that without it being monotonic. I'd also like to see some buffs (yes this is like my 4th time saying this in this thread) on unused skills or skills that are horribad but can't be buffed cause they would imbalance PvP. Or hell just remove 30% of the skills altogether!

Like Shatter Storm which can be said to be totally useless in PvE or anywhere. Change the whole entire skill. Make it cost 15 energy, 25-30s recharge.. and have it do damage per enchantment removed up to a capped number. Then it could be a super Shatter Enchantment and less suck. But see I suppose that would make PvE easy soo...yeah like I said before I don't know how Anet will go about it.

Maybe that is why they're making Guild Wars 2. Hah.

EDIT:

Arkanto's this game was challenging during Prophecies when there was only Prophecies. Factions when NF didn't exist. But as they added more skills it got even easier. PvE Skills and EotN just totally rendered the prior campaigns easy. But I"m sure most of the difficulty in Prophecies had to do with me being noob, but at least a tiny bit had to do with the lack of the skills we have now. One area that is still difficult for me is Torment area. Sure I could run things that make it easier but easy isn't fun if I'm not getting tons of phat lootz.